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$$$ DOSH $$$
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Post by Value Valencia on Mar 31, 2017 2:11:43 GMT -5
This is purely in-rp territory, but based on mechanics to properly channel how major setting changes would be made by the players. What if we could put up a request for a significant universe change as a "Goal" (for example, successfuly infiltrating the Freiza Force and being a double agent, becoming king of some primitive xeno country, becoming a FAMOUS ROCK STAR), and then a staff can evaluate how difficult it would be to accomplish, assign it a difficulty, and then you can go and collect points for it. For example: - Country-affecting: Requires 5 Story Points to create a Country-Affecting change to the forum's setting. For example, becoming a major local star or criminal.
- Planet-affecting: Requires 15 Story Points, yadda yadda
- Universe-affecting: Requires 40 Story points, with at least 3 different members providing 10 each, yadda yadda
Story points for a Goal/Merit/etc would be earned at the same rate as MP (1 per 5 posts). So the flow would be: Player makes Goal request -> Staff approves it and assigns difficulty -> Player can now earn points for it much like Ying/Yang is earned -> Once completed, a detail of the forum's setting is changed accordingly. YOU WANT TO BECOME KING OF AMAZON PLANET? WANT TO BECOME THE MASCOT OF A FAMOUS BEVERAGE? YOU WANNA BECOME A SUPER FAMOUS THIEF LIKE LUPIN? With this you can, as proper system to acknowledge and support it, because it would be major stuff (minor stuff doesn't need this imo). Lemme know what you think \o/
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Alt Character🔸
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Post by zoshin on Mar 31, 2017 6:30:41 GMT -5
That's pretty incredible thinking there, Value. IMO.
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Alt Character🔸
You're filthy, but I know that's not your fault.
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Post by Penay on Mar 31, 2017 13:13:03 GMT -5
I seriously recommend checking out how the newest edition of 7th Sea handles its advancing system. Basically, if you want to level up in a skill or attribute, you have to achieve some kind of character goal, based on the reward you want, split into different phases. For example, if I want to go to skill level 3, I have to achieve a 4-part goal for my character. I'm trying to get the support of a rich family member, so I split it into four stages: 1) Make my presence in the city known to them 2) Gain an audience with them 3) Do a favor for the relative 4) Get them to agree to support me Or something like that. I like the idea of implementing a system like this because it pairs rewards with RP and developing the story. Right now, almsot everything about the game is geared towards conventional level up, and the Battle system is designed to be an extremely intrusive meta that's going to get ignored if it continues on the course of 'Extreme leet pvp gank 360 noscope.' I'm not here to minmax my stats, I'm here to RP characters. This makes the mechanics of the game serve the story, rather than using the story as a wrapping for the mechanics, and allow for a much more broadly applied meta. Also, it creates an additional incentive to have story-focused battles. Think about it: Two opposing factions are trying to achieve dominance in a region, and there are various resources they can fight over. The first to, say 50 points as Value Valencia described, gain most of the control of the region, so players of different factions will have battles over something substantial for their goals, rather than just 'I need to up my PL, so I need to be in battles.' The mechanics should not be the goal of the game; it should be just as valid to be a weak character than a strong character. The mechanics serve the story, the story shouldn't be a wrapping.
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Post by Lute on Mar 31, 2017 13:46:24 GMT -5
I seriously recommend checking out how the newest edition of 7th Sea handles its advancing system. Basically, if you want to level up in a skill or attribute, you have to achieve some kind of character goal, based on the reward you want, split into different phases. For example, if I want to go to skill level 3, I have to achieve a 4-part goal for my character. I'm trying to get the support of a rich family member, so I split it into four stages: 1) Make my presence in the city known to them 2) Gain an audience with them 3) Do a favor for the relative 4) Get them to agree to support me Or something like that. I like the idea of implementing a system like this because it pairs rewards with RP and developing the story. Right now, almsot everything about the game is geared towards conventional level up, and the Battle system is designed to be an extremely intrusive meta that's going to get ignored if it continues on the course of 'Extreme leet pvp gank 360 noscope.' I'm not here to minmax my stats, I'm here to RP characters. This makes the mechanics of the game serve the story, rather than using the story as a wrapping for the mechanics, and allow for a much more broadly applied meta. Also, it creates an additional incentive to have story-focused battles. Think about it: Two opposing factions are trying to achieve dominance in a region, and there are various resources they can fight over. The first to, say 50 points as Value Valencia described, gain most of the control of the region, so players of different factions will have battles over something substantial for their goals, rather than just 'I need to up my PL, so I need to be in battles.' The mechanics should not be the goal of the game; it should be just as valid to be a weak character than a strong character. The mechanics serve the story, the story shouldn't be a wrapping. You may be playing the wrong game then. This is a roleplaying game in the fullest sense of the word. The mechanics are there to tell a specific type of story. That is the story of warriors duking it out in battles. That is literally the focus of the Dragonball Z manga and anime. They train and fight and get stronger to unlock new levels of power. That is what you do in this game as well. That is a purposeful design. This game IS telling the story that I intended. I am not against adding other stuff, but I think that in the end I want to becareful not to deviate from the original focus. I realized during the Saiyan War arc that DBZ has never been about wars, not really. It's about that individual struggle to be the best you can be. Its about fighting big bads who are stronger than you. That's the story I, as a GM, will try to push more often.
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Supporter🌟
Courage is contagious. When the brave take a stand, the spines of others are often stiffened.
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Post by Son Godai on Mar 31, 2017 19:05:56 GMT -5
Creating a thing like "Saga Points" or something that determine a character's impact on the world around them would be interesting if only for giving standardized way of judging how well you'd know of another character. Maybe it'd require so many Saga Points to become a leader of a faction. Something like that.
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Post by Lute on Mar 31, 2017 19:13:57 GMT -5
Creating a thing like "Saga Points" or something that determine a character's impact on the world around them would be interesting if only for giving standardized way of judging how well you'd know of another character. Maybe it'd require so many Saga Points to become a leader of a faction. Something like that. I guess I don't see why someone needs to have points to measure their impact on the world. So far, characters have done that just through their actions during events, battles, and adventures. Maybe we just need to invent a better way to record and keep these changes in the "public eye."
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Supporter🌟
Courage is contagious. When the brave take a stand, the spines of others are often stiffened.
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Post by Son Godai on Mar 31, 2017 19:22:38 GMT -5
It always makes players happy to build toward a reward of some king. Some kind of saga points, or reputation points that count towards helping a faction can be extremely useful to that end if you append unique bonuses to each of the factions, and a player can spend the reputation that they've earned for that faction in specials ways.
- Maybe Frieza Force could be the only place where you could spend faction points to upgrade your Battle Armor and Blaster Type items.
- Or maybe once you had so much Reputation with the Galactic Patrol they allowed you to perform a Bounty Hunting Adventure once per week that had an extra +1 on its treasure roll or something.
It's an interesting way to apply unique character growth options that apply to the world in a way that makes it feel more alive.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2017 1:25:26 GMT -5
I fully agree with Kosen, Sawba has made such an impact on a few characters he has people doing stuff in roleplays that I don't even know about until they're already full swing haha.
I don't think everything needs a reward, but I like Kosen's idea of making things more easy to find for the public eye, in part due to my statement above. Cause' not everyone tags people when they bring them up in their roleplays and it can mean they're missing out on stuff involving their character. Like if someone's building toward plotting against someone, maybe it's eventful enough to warrant being put on a bulletin, along with things like being a douche along the outer rim territories [Star Wars reference], becoming super rich or what have you.
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Post by Lute on Apr 1, 2017 11:03:08 GMT -5
It always makes players happy to build toward a reward of some king. Some kind of saga points, or reputation points that count towards helping a faction can be extremely useful to that end if you append unique bonuses to each of the factions, and a player can spend the reputation that they've earned for that faction in specials ways. - Maybe Frieza Force could be the only place where you could spend faction points to upgrade your Battle Armor and Blaster Type items.
- Or maybe once you had so much Reputation with the Galactic Patrol they allowed you to perform a Bounty Hunting Adventure once per week that had an extra +1 on its treasure roll or something.It's an interesting way to apply unique character growth options that apply to the world in a way that makes it feel more alive. Oh. I thought people wanted to have more impact on the universe. I don't think mechanical rewards are a way to do that. But, I kinda gave up on pushing factions. I don't think it fits the setting as much as I tried to have it do in the beginning. I feel like DBZ is more about individual fighters training to be the best. I still will have them, as they make sense story wise, but I don't think I'll build them up.
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Player Character🔹
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Post by pinach on May 17, 2017 15:02:16 GMT -5
I'd like to put forward something worth noting. An issue that the Dragon Ball Universe sometimes has is escalation; Frieza was the strongest in the Universe, and then Goku bested him. Cell is a reasonable escalation; we call back to the Red Ribbon Army, throw in some unexpected drama with Goku's heart disease and the Androids, etc. This leads to Cell, who has the DNA of the Universe's strongest and gains power by absorbing the power of others. Cell is eventually overcome by a combination of Gohan and Goku attacking him together.
From here, we start stumbling into the issue. Majin Buu, while interesting and zany and easily one of my favorite villains for the sheer absurdity of his character, sort of rehashes the absorption thing. He absorbs others, gains their powers, and grows stronger through it. Where do we go from here?
The Gods! Okay, that's not too bad, sure. In fact, it adds a lot to the lore, but the problem here is that we find ourselves stumbling back into... Frieza. Again. Alright.
After Frieza, we break into the Goku Black arch. Cool. Except, this feels familiar, doesn't it? Trunks came back from the future after the Z Warriors defeated Frieza to warn them about a new threat/to get help taking down a new threat/to get stronger.
I'm not saying everything is repetitive, but when the only real danger is "THIS is the STRONGEST GUY EVER!", the goal is undermined when the next threat is "ACTUALLY, THIS IS THE STRONGEST GUY EVER!"
I feel like- or at least, my method has always been- to set up my own personal NPC villains to take down, and keep them central to my stories. This allows me to mold my "STRONGEST ENEMY EVER!" to my power level, and allows me to escalate it in a way that works with my story. I feel like, on a site wide level, things should be spicier than "Strongest Guy Ever vs You." Let me explain, because I feel like I'm not wording this very well.
Let's say we have an event the first week of July, in which The Abyss King Artoria appears on Earth, and starts wreaking total havoc on Central City and the surrounding area. A few warriors, or a bunch of warriors, come together to take him down. That's nifty, for sure.
But what happens when, in August, the Dancer of the Milky Way Valley shows up and starts attacking South City? And then in September, when Onion and Smol turn up and attack Satan City? In October, when the Bloodstarved Beast invades some other city?
Alliances seem to already exist, yeah? Saiyan Dominion, Galactic Patrol, etc. I would imagine that, if some Frost Demons saved Earth from Artoria and the Dancer, they'd develop a reputation with some officials on Earth. Dragon Ball Z might not have been about war and politics, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. We know of at least two or three armies; the Saiyans, the Frieza Force, the Red Ribbon Army... We know of literal genocides, a market for planets, which suggests galactic economy, etc etc.
There should be an overtone of war, of political intrigue. It keeps things spicy, which is good, arguably important for maintaining long term interest. Let's say we have twelve events a year; if ten of those twelve events are just fighting the new big bad, then two of them could be considered crescendoes or climaxes in the action. Again, let me explain.
The first, say, five events of the year are about some Demons invading various locations. Each one is gradually stronger or cleverer or more horrifying than the last. On the sixth event, certain characters will have earned some sort of reputation with the people they protected or harmed, right? So, let's say a bunch of Saiyan Elites solo the first two demons. Let's say those two demons were both on Namek. It stands to reason that the Saiyan Elites would be regarded as heroes by at least some of the locals, and this could reasonably generate an alliance between the Saiyans and Namekians, if the Elites use their new reputations correctly.
So, we're on the sixth event of the year, the Saiyan Dominion is allied to the Namekians, and that maybe makes the Frieza Force uneasy. Those are two of the most naturally gifted races in the Galaxy, after all. The Frieza Force might decide to dig in on training its troops, attempt to ally with the Demons, or find some other way to regain their edge on the Galactic Playing Field. Hell, maybe they outright decide to launch a preemptive attack on the Saiyans. This leads to a war based event, in which 'The STRONGEST EVER' isn't simply an NPC...
But the PC's in the opposing factions. Now we have rivalries where there might not have been any interaction at all.
So Saiyan Soldier Pinach ends up going toe to toe with Frieza Force Grunt, Mole. The two duke it out on some moon in a backwater system, their brothers and sisters in arms also fighting all around them. The battle ends in a draw, and both factions retreat for fear of total destruction. Later on in the Sixth Event, Pinach and Mole meet again, this time in the atmosphere over Planet Mars. Pinach has grown in power due to a zenkai boost or two, while Mole has unlocked his first transformation. They fight again, but Mole manages to kill Pinach at the last second, sending the Saiyan to Other World. Meanwhile, other players are battling too, simultaneously, their own rivalries playing out.
In the aftermath of Event Six, several players are in Other World, licking their wounds until they can respawn back in the Mortal Realm. Pinach uses his time to visit the Kais, and trains vigorously with them. When he eventually appears back on Earth, Event Seven is kicking off. He uses his new skills and power to help decimate the next waves of Demons, and continues growing in power throughout the year; events 7-11 pass by, and the Demons keep growing and growing in intensity.
The year comes to a close with Event Twelve. The Saiyan Dominion and the Frieza Force are converging on Planet Salada, where the final Demon has appeared; it's not just any demon, but Lucifer himself, come to claim the Home World of the Saiyans as his Throne in the mortal world. The Frieza Force is forced to, just this once, ally with the Saiyan Empire to defeat Lucifer. But maybe, just maybe, Pinach feels his rivalry with Mole is more important than some Demon King trying to invade the mortal world. And so, when the blasted Mole appears on the battlefield, Pinach goes up to full power and initiates a battle with Mole. The seeds of discord sprout, and all hell, literally and figuratively, breaks loose.
The event becomes three-prong; a decisive battle between the Saiyans and Arcosians/Xenos, and the climax of the Demon Invasions. Let's say that, this time, Pinach overcomes and kills Mole. He goes on to try and fight Lucifer, but is decimated in his weakened state. The Frieza Force, unlike the Saiyans, have an ungodly level of patience. They allow the Saiyans to attack Lucifer first, and, once both of their foes are weakened, they come in for the kill. They utterly decimate the Dominion and slay Lucifer, resulting in a total win by the Frieza Force.
Going into the next year, the Frieza Force suddenly owns Salada. The Saiyan Dominion is in shambles, its resources and total power reduced to a fraction of what it once was. Players will now feel a sense of pride for their strategy, a need to improve in the wake of their failures. There will be rivalries that might not have existed if not for this structure, and the potential to shape the Universe year in and year out.
I hope that made sense.
EDIT: Incidentally, Dragon Ball tended to use tournaments as finales, right? I know there's one going on right now, but one could arguably use those to help maintain the Dragon Ball feel, especially if war based events are given some emphasis. I know it's a far cry from the typical DBZ episode, but I feel that it creates an overarching sense of purpose if factions are at odds, and if those odds are justified in an official kind of way through war-based events.
EDIT 2: There's an official manga about a kid who was reincarnated as Yamcha, which seems interesting from what I've heard. He uses his knowledge of the Dragon ball story to get stronger, going so far as to travel to namek before the Saiyans arrive on Earth, where he gets his potential unlocked and trains with Nail. He returns in time to face the Saiyans alongside Goku, with his power level pushing 10,000, where Goku's was a mere 8,000. This shows that the formula can vary a little and still feel like Dragon Ball, even in an official capacity. The story to that manga seems to be tapping into a sort of meta that I don't think anyone could have expected outside of Fan Fiction. This proves that you can have new and irregular plot lines and stories that aren't necessarily 'Dragon ball'-esque. I mainly mention it because of that fact; having a gritty war and placing emphasis on the factions in it can be done in a way that feels like Dragon Ball. It would be worth it to devise incentives to encourage players to participate in factions, while simultaneously striving to be the strongest they can in an individual sense.
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Post by Lute on May 18, 2017 17:03:44 GMT -5
pinachI wanted war and political intrigue and agree with most of your points. The thing is, if I emphasize factions too much, it takes away from those who have no interest in that kind of thing. If I do events with factions, only a handful of people seem to care enough to join them. It's like a lose-lose situation. I think now that we have Storytellers, that relieves it. We'll have smaller plots. Some of them faction based, some of them not. There will be less of a "this is the site plot" and more "there are lots of various plots, each one important."
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