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Post by rayu on Feb 8, 2017 22:40:49 GMT -5
So below here is just a bare bones idea for creating those staple feelings in DBZ where you're struggling to push back the killer energy beam or locked in a mortal flurry of blows with your enemy. The stats and stuff haven't had a ton of thought put into balancing, and there are some contingency rules that are missing. (Like what happens if someone not in the beam struggle attacks you, etc).
But it's a possible framework for a mini-game that essentially gives players a bonus 20 HP a piece to play with as they fight using only their raw power to see who's the winner. Oh, the only other idea I had that I didn't throw in right off the bat was the possibility that increasing your power level by percentages increases your force instead of your power level when in one of these clashes.
Beam Struggles and Martial Clashes
Beam Struggles and Martial Clashes are a special phase of combat between two players that represent a contestation of skill and raw power in which they combat each other offensively until one’s strength defeats the other.
- Beam Struggle: When being attacked by a ranged energy attack a character may initiate a ‘Beam Struggle’. Both characters begin with a new statistic called ‘Force’ which begins at 100%, and characters may only use 1 Bonus Action, and 1 Standard Action per turn, which must target the opponent in the ‘Beam Struggle’. Attack rolls are made against the opponent’s Energy Control skill instead of Defense, and for each point of damage dealt with an attack, the opponent lose 5% of their Force. The character whose Force reaches 0% first is dealt the damage of the technique that initiated the Beam Struggle in addition to +1 damage for every turn the Beam Struggle was active.
- Martial Clash: When being attacked by a melee physical attack a character may initiate a ‘Martial Clash’. Both characters begin with a new statistic called ‘Force’ which begins at 100%, and characters may only use 1 Bonus Action, and 1 Standard Action per turn, which must target the opponent in the ‘Martial Clash’. Attack rolls are made against the opponent’s Fighting skill instead of Defense, and for each point of damage dealt with an attack, the opponent lose 5% of their Force. The character whose Force reaches 0% first is dealt the damage of the technique that initiated the Martial Clash in addition to +1 damage for every turn the Beam Struggle was active.
Techniques:
Beam Struggle
Type: Defense
Action: Standard Action
Effect: Your next standard action creates a ‘Beam Struggle’ between you and one opponent attacking you with a ranged energy attack.
Cost: -5 Ki (Once per battle)
Martial Clash
Type: Defense
Action: Standard Action
Effect: Your next standard action creates a ‘Martial Clash’ between you and one opponent attacking you with a melee physical attack.
Cost: -5 Ki (Once per battle)
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Player Character🔹
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Post by Zuupi on Feb 9, 2017 4:56:00 GMT -5
With that idea you would make too many posts just doing a struggle between beams. Which would then give you reward bonuses for stacking up lackluster posts. Trying to write 200 words for a beam struggle in and of itself would be a struggle wouldn't it? Let alone 4 or 5 posts.
Why not have it decided with once simple contested roll, and maybe bonus actions like power up or charge up being allowed to boost your roll some. As well as any edges added in somehow.
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Player Character🔹
I will never give up
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Post by Kress on Feb 9, 2017 12:07:50 GMT -5
I love the idea of a beam struggle and I though about this idea for a while now, not wanting to bring up anything since I was too lazy trying to actually find a way to make it work.
But I would like to say +1 from me for beam struggle. I think it would be awesome.
At the same time I do think that Zuupi is right. As cool as a mini-game to decide which one would will the struggle sounds, it would be too much of a hassle to do something that would take too many posts.
What I do think would work would be to make it a battle tech that is opened to everyone that works as a defense:
Beam Struggle
Type: Defense
Action: Standard Action.
Limit: Can only be used when attacked with an energy attack.
Effect: Roll for an energy attack and damage (Normal rules apply). If your attack score is higher then your opponent's energy attack, negate it and apply the damage from the attack to your opponent. If it fails to meet your opponent's score apply the damage from his attack to yourself as normal.
Cost: Same Ki cost as attack used (Once per battle)
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Post by Lute on Feb 9, 2017 12:40:43 GMT -5
What if someone's actions go like this?
Action #1) Energy Attack
Action #2) Strike
Then you respond with a beam struggle. On their very next turn, they have to backtrack to describe what happened as a result of their actions two posts ago. It disrupts the flow of the narration a bit, making them recap thing that already happened. The strike gets lost in that process, because in reality they were "stopped" to engage in a beam struggle.
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Player Character🔹
I will never give up
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Post by Kress on Feb 9, 2017 13:51:33 GMT -5
That is another reason I think it should be a defensive move, Lute. This way it is resolved in the same turn so there is no reason to backtrack. |
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Player Character🔹
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Post by Zuupi on Feb 9, 2017 22:33:23 GMT -5
Ah true, except wouldn't that still mean that the Roleplayer who failed their beam struggle would still have to back track and explain what happened as a result of losing and taking damage.
Beam struggle as a defensive technique essentially makes it offensive if you win it. Say you use it as a defensive technique and they lose the struggle, or want to dodge it. It's like getting an extra attack too. Though a high ki cost would make it more balanced.
But there is one last issue. What if someone took actions the way Kosen describes, lose the beam struggle, but get ko'd by it. There second action would just disappear altogether.
Beam struggles just can't work unless we come up with a technique like a finisher that takes both actions. Maybe call it an ultimate attack. Then someone could struggle with that persons ultimate attack if they so chose to.
The same could go for a clash technique as well.
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Player Character🔹
I will never give up
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Post by Kress on Feb 10, 2017 1:41:54 GMT -5
Here is an example: Player A RP: "Player A gathers ki into his hands while bringing them back to his waist before pushing them forward, releasing a powerful ki beam that shots toward his opponent. Regardless of whether the energy blast hits or misses, player A will then charge at his opponent and throw a powerful punch right at his face." Player A Rolls: Bonus Action: Charge-up Standard Action 1: Energy beam: To-Hit xxQPVOVU1d100+25 Damage 1d12+2 Standard Action 2: Punch: To-Hit 1d100+10 Damage 1d8 Player B RP: "Player B looks down at his opponent from up in the sky, wondering what he is up to. As soon as he notices the increase in ki he understands what he is planning to do. 'This is interesting' he thinks to himself as he gathers his own ki into his hands, determined to out power his opponent in an energy struggle. The beams hit dead center..[More description of the power struggle].. Until finally player B couldn't hold on anymore and player A's attack hit him as it pushed through his attack, sending him flying to the ground below. Player B got up and looked for his opponent, finding him standing right in front of him, sending a punch to his face with such force that he was pushed backwards. Refusing to go down, Player B pushed forward, dishing out a strike of his own. Player B Rolls: Defense PhaseBonus Action: Charge-up Standard Action: Beam Struggle (37 to beat): To-Hit 1d100+25 Damage 1d12+2Attack Phase Standard Action: Strike: To-hit 1d100+5 Damage 1d8
In this example you can see an entire beam struggle complete in one turn, no need to backtrack because it all happens during the turn of the player who initiated it, allowing him to use the struggle to try and negate the attack and cause damage. You can also see that he used both his bonus action and one of his standard actions in his defense phase, sacrificing it for the struggle. Then when he lost, he took both the damage of the energy attack and strike attack from his opponent and only got one standard attack during his attack phase. These is a huge risk in this move, but also great reward if successful. Because you need to sacrifice a standard action for it, you will do less damage in your attack phase while on the other hand you have a chance to negate an energy attack that would have hit you. You can make it so that once you initiate a struggle you can't escape it if you lose. You can't use Rapid Movement after you roll for the struggle if your rolls were less then the opponent. It a commitment. Regarding your point, Zuupi. It can cancel out an attack if the defender wins and his attack brings an opponent down to 0, but it doesn't require backtracking as the fight is over. 1d100+25·1d12+2·1d100+10·1d8·1d100+25·1d12+2·1d100+5·1d8 |
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Alt Character🔸
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Post by rayu on Feb 10, 2017 5:16:36 GMT -5
I'm just going to respond to things in the order that they were posts.
Zuupi 1: Getting more posts is good for all players involved. It means more growth from a statistical perspective. On the flip-side the RP might be a little bit harder, but I don't think doing a beam struggle for 2 turns would be any more difficult than trying to find new ways to write "He did a power blast", which we do just about every other battle. In fact, it may even be more exciting. Repetitive action doesn't necessarily mean that writing will be bad, but in the grand scheme the writing for battle RP's tends to not be amazing because it in and of itself is repetitive behavior. This doesn't change that.
Kress 1: The only reason for a Beam Struggle option to exist in my mind would be for the interesting back and forth that would spring up from the two players fighting a mini-fight to see who gets hit. Otherwise it's just another random defense technique. We've got a lot of those already.
Kosen 1: Narrative vs Battle Mechanics is valid, but at the same time it's just a flavor issue, and not a system one. Alternatively, you could say that a character who takes damage from a source that isn't the thing they're struggle/clashing against is immediately knocked out of the clash. So if you tried to do a clash with another attack on the "stack" it would push you out of the clash. Since it's sort of like you're trying to get ready and then to counter that they give you a surprise punch in the face. This change would also make it so that it'd be super dangerous to use clash in team matches, which makes sense to me.
Zuupi 2: You're right in that game tempo is important to pay attention to, but in the event that Initiating a Beam Struggle was a Bonus Action, and the you chose a 2nd technique as a Standard Action to be the beam you used, you're not gaining any more or less tempo than using a Bonus Action to avoid the enemy attack and just attacking with your standard action. In fact, you're probably losing a bit of tempo.
Kress 3: A perfectly good way to make a Defensive Technique, and it crossed my mind (mostly because I always try and look for the path of least resistance when I write game mechanics.), but I opted not to use a schematic like that in my pitch because it doesn't feel cool like a beam struggle. It feels like a Defensive technique.
Ultimately if the idea won't work it won't work, and that's fine, or if you want to salvage pieces of it, I don't mind that either. They're just a cool part of DBZ fights because it's like contest of wills, which is why it seemed neat to stop the flow of battle to have a mini-fight with the loser getting slammed for some extra damage at the end, and I'll admit the idea needs polishing which is why I threw it in here.
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Post by Lute on Feb 10, 2017 6:19:10 GMT -5
Kress: The issue I have with that is the defense person has to roll the dice and then check their post to see if they even succeeded at their defense. Then they have to continue writing their post after that point. That's why there's no defensive technique rolls and everything is standardized. Beam struggles were considered early on. I felt like not including them was a small sacrifice to make the battle system faster, with two actions per post. If it were a one action per post game, it would be a different game (and it would change a lot mechanically.) Also, a much slower game.
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Player Character🔹
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Post by fraction on Mar 27, 2017 11:27:20 GMT -5
Perhaps make Advanced and Finisher moves mandatory as finishing actions?
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